schlitt.info - php, photography and private stuff
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:Author: Tobias Schlitt
:Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:29:46 +0100
:Revision: 1
:Copyright: CC by-nc-sa
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Abject "sponsored link" practice on PHPFreaks (update -2-)
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:Description:
I still recieve lot's of comments on this issue, which all have basically
the same content, affirming my opinion. The most common sense is, that
abusing the content created by somebody else to put ads into it (in the
way it is done, by modifying the content) is a real shame and has to be
considered equal with spam. Today an anonymouse reader pointed out, that
they actually violate the OPL, under which the PHP manual is provided. The
OPL says "The modified version must be labeled as such." and "The person
making the modifications must be identified and the modifications dated.".
Both points seem not being fulfilled on that site.
**Update -2- (Jan 20th 2005, 13:45)**:
I still recieve lot's of comments on this issue, which all have basically the
same content, affirming my opinion. The most common sense is, that abusing the
content created by somebody else to put ads into it (in the way it is done, by
modifying the content) is a real shame and has to be considered equal with
spam. Today an anonymouse reader pointed out, that they actually violate the
`OPL`__, under which the `PHP manual`__ is provided. The OPL says "`The
modified version must be labeled as such.`__" and "`The person making the
modifications must be identified and the modifications dated.`__". Both points
seem not being fulfilled on that site.
.. __: http://www.php.net/manual/en/opl.license.php
.. __: http://php.net/manual/
.. __: http://www.php.net/manual/en/opl.modified.works.php
.. __: http://www.php.net/manual/en/opl.modified.works.php
Other commentors pointed out to me, that the freaks also link the word "Perl"
to their hosting service. Maybe this is interessting to peoplei of the Perl
community?
Anyway, thanks for everyone who added an affirmation and showed to this
strange freaks, that their ad practices are despicable. **If you want to raise
your opinion, please don't hesitate to add a comment here!**
**Update (Jan 17th 2005, 13:45)**:
Many people replied to my article, so I feel I should post an update. Thanks
for everyone who stated his opinion so far.
Today I saw that phpfreaks.com actually changed the links on the word *PHP* to
point to their start page and now link the word *hosting* to their webspace
provider. At least, this does not harm my PHP evangelism feelings that much
anymore. Anyway, the difference between ad and content is still not clear at
all. Pretty many people (compared to the usual comment traffic on my blog)
already claimed their support against this kind of ads here.
Most funnily `phpfreaks.com even aggregated this article`__ through an
`indirection of phpdeveloper.org`__. While I like getting aggregated on sites
like phpdeveloper.org, planet-php.net and so on quite much, I strongly
discourage that my content is reused by this phpfreaks page. **Sorry guys, I
do not permit you any longer to use my words for your advertisements.**
.. __: http://www.phpfreaks.com/articles/736/0.php
.. __: http://www.phpdeveloper.org/news/4660
**Do you have an opinion on this? Please leave a comment here!**
**Original (Jan 12th 2005, 19:06)**:
As `Vidyut pointed out`__, phpfreaks.com seems to automatically create a link
everywhere on their website, where the word "PHP" appears. They do this even
in user comments. Apparently this seems to be a nice service, if the link
would direct you to `php.net`__ (or maybe some `explaination page`__ or
something). But instead they link to some hosting provider which supports PHP
(what also well known as a "sponsored link").
.. __: http://www.phpcult.com/archives/38-Search-engine-spamming-on-phpfreaks.com.html
.. __: http://php.net
.. __: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Php
I have to admit that this is **one of the largest brazennesses I every saw**.
Beside that, it's **absolutely frowned upon** in journalism circles (even the
famous German "`Bild-Zeitung`__" does not do advertisment in such a abject
way, also they are wellknown for borderlining adverts) and in many states even
completly illegal.
.. __: http://bild.de
*You should really feel ashame, you strange PHPFreaks!*
..
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- 3 years of blogging on Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:57:47 +0200 in Tobias Schlitt - a passion for php
Yes, it's true, exactly 3 years ago I wrote my first blog entry. By that
time I would never have imagined, that I would keep blogging for more than 3
years and that more or less constantly. My weblog now contains 458 entries.
Surely, there is some bulshit
Comments
========
- phpfreak at Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:01:28 +0100
I don't see it necessary to blast us with an article of your site because we
link of to relevant services. ServerPowered.com is our dedicated server
company which is owned by The Web Freaks and also provides the revenue
required to run The Web Freaks sites such as PHPFreaks, LinuxForum and such.
Unfortunately, we attemped the "Donate" to us links but the people in these
communities do not donate and we have to find funding to keep our sites
open, when they use a helluva lot of bandwidth and server power. Therefore,
if you also notice, any word on the site that's a PHP function takes you to
the PHP manual for that function. I don't see you complaining about that.
Just as the various words built into our articles and tutorials take you to
relevant advertising -- not junk like other sites do. Unfortunately again,
yes we have banners on our sites. But people are immune to those as well.
Therefore, we have to advertise our services in a way that will get people's
attention -- much like it did for you here -- and hopefully they will
consider our services and untlimately contribute back to our communities.
We're a company, we're not some webmaster sitting at home in his underwear
building websites. We have to earn revenue to keep the sites open. Simple.
Also, 45,000 unique visitors per day and this is the second complaint, which
is a "bandwagon" complaint in my opinion, since someone else started it and
you probably needed content for your website, sow hat the heck?
-phpfreak
- Toby at Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:10:31 +0100
I know I should not reply to this again, but sorry, your reply even makes me
more angry. So, here we go:
a) I'm not blasting anyone with articles on my site, I just state my
opinion. That occasionally services aggregate my weblog is not my problem.
b) Sure, Vidyut already noticed the issue. Blogging lives from
interconnection and replying to each other, what I did.
c) Linking to "relevant services" is a good thing, no problem. But making
the word "PHP" link to that service is at least improper advertisement. The
fact that you link PHP functions to the manual (also a good service) does
not make it better in that case, since it only conceals the fact that those
links on the word "PHP" take the visitor to some different side.
Sadly I have no remedy to force you to remove this kind of advertisement.
But I'm quite sure, that if you reconsider it carefully I'm sure you will
see how much harm you do yourself by using such. Although people might not
state their opinion as loud as I'm doing it, I'm sure there are lots of
people anoyed by your abuse of the term PHP. At least the community people
who build PHP.
- tlcoffee at Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:19:30 +0100
Let me see here. People syndicate word advertisments via Google. These are
third party marketing campaigns from unknown providers.
Let me see here. Serverpowered.com is TWF owned and operated, established to
help keep heavily trafficked communities online and you sit there and
complain about it?
How foolish you look.
- Toby at Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:36:06 +0100
The point is, that one should be able to clearly determine, what is content
and what is advertisement, not the advertisement at all. Making adverts look
like content is like sending spam. Especially if one makes that for even
user supplied comments.
- phpfreak at Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:19:52 +0100
Ok, that's called "Status Bar" or "Title Text" in the link. Before I click
on a link to anywhere, I look down in the bottom left portion of my browser
and see where the link goes. If its going to somewhere I know, or looks
legit, then I click it. Also, if the "Title" text says "PHP Web Hosting"
then I know its an ad. We've always used title text.
Also, for a Zend Ceritfied Engineer, I'm sad to say that your quotes "" are
broken in the boards.
Regards, -phpfreak
- phpfreak at Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:22:38 +0100
And..... whats up with all the question marks on your site? They take me to
example.com. Example.com takes me to a 404. I'd much rather see an
advertisement than a 404!
- Toby at Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:34:15 +0100
Nice that you try making this to a personal fight. Anyway I will not comment
on this any more. My opinion is stated quite clear multiple times here. If
it does not fit you, ignore me or do whatever you like. :)
- Toby at Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:19:36 +0100
Sorry, I did not want to shut down anybody, but while playing with the
sources last night, it seems I broke the CAPTCHA. Since I notices, I
deactivated them for now.
- Kore at Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:19:55 +0100
I think toby is absoulte right here. The user should always be able to see
what is advertisement, and what is not.
For sure there are some users who have a look at the status bar before
clicking on a link, but this doesn't matter. A user expects some relevant
information on PHP, when he clicks on link named "PHP", and not a hosting
company. It makes me think, that you are trying to fool the user by
intention. (You may say that this is the intention of all advertising out
there - but it persists wrong).
In germany we have a law for all media, that advertisement must be obviously
cognizable by the viewer. And I think this is the only right way. Of course
you get less hits - but this would be the right way to do it.
- Peter at Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:57:58 +0100
I do agree to Toby and Kore, adverts should always be cognizable as what
they are. A hidden link pointing to a sponsor or to something else the user
couldn't expect behind the link is, from my point of view, a kind of fair
swindle.
- Tobias at Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:28:46 +0100
I must full agree and cannot understand why the hosting costs are the
reason. Regardless the fact that mixing advertisement and content is evil i
see no sense in that advertising approach. Because why should someone be
more interrested in that service only because he is tricked by the page? I
think it will also have the same effect if you make a big banner blinking at
the top of the page advertising your service.
- J?rg at Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:37:59 +0100
In my Opinion, those advertising can't be serious. I want mor informations
on PHP when i click on links that are with the word PHP. Some information
like "sponsored link" would make it easier to make a descision whether to
click or not.
just my 2 cents
- Aaron Wormus at Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:38:11 +0100
Your website is your castle. I have no business telling someone else where
to link to and where not to link to.
However when you take my content
(http://www.phpfreaks.com/articles/707/0.php) and put ads in that, then that
is when it becomes my problem.
And please don't say that you need the ads to make up for the bandwidth
costs of serving the pages which the ads are on. If you don't want the cost
of serving up my content, then don't serve aggregated content.
If your regular visitors don't value the site enough to help pitch in to
cover the costs, and you can no longer cover the costs out of your own
pocket, then I would sincerely consider shutting yourself down. What's the
point of running a useless site?
- Jakob at Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:24:13 +0100
I do agree with toby and kore. I fully understand that advertisments are
needed to help financing such projects. But I want to know what is an
advertisment and what isn't. Clicking on a link with the word php I expect
more information about php. As J?rg suggested it would be acceptable to add
some information like "sponsored" or "advertisment".
- michael wiese at Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:18:05 +0100
i don't think this style of advertising will help anyone.
it is annoying for an experienced user who expect something useful behind a
link inside of content.
it is confusing for an unexperienced user because some of them don't
understand the concept of external links and wonder why the page they viewed
is gone even if the advertising opens in a new window.
some pages use this advertising concept with external links and tooltips.
for example: http://business.tomshardware.de/news/20060116_130427.html this
ist really annoying cause the tooltips fire instantly if they receive a
mouseover. it disturbs copy pasting, uses javascript and consume bandwidth
for nothing.
most people wont click these links twice, some people (like me) will stop
visiting such a site.
in my opinion this kind of advertising, popup/popunder advertising and div
overlay advertising is something the web doesn't need.
mfg michael
- Toby at Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:41:55 +0100
Seems my complains helped a bit in a way. I recently noticed, that the word
"PHP" now links to phpfreaks.com itself and the word "hosting" is linked to
the hosting provided. Although it still changes content provided by other
people ( for example me: http://www.phpfreaks.com/articles/736/0.php ), this
linking makes sense in a way and does not "fake" the user to click on the
advertisements.
- Sebastian at Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:13:55 +0100
Computerwoche.de does this too.
- Toby at Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:46:47 +0100
Then it sucks there, too. :)
- Vidyut Luther at Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:17:12 +0100
Mr. Freak, Since Toby's site get more traffic and comments than I do..
please go read the comments on his site. The problem is not with Ads. I
don't have an issue with the ads you have placed on the top and right hand
corner of the site. Everyone needs to, hell if you buy any of the books on
the right hand side, I get money. My problem is with how you are placing ads
under the word PHP. Add to that, the fact that you added ads in my comments
to your post. The fact that your links are polluting search engines by
having the word "PHP" linked to ServerPowered.com is what I have a problem
with. If you were to put double underlines or any other way of denoting that
those links are ads (nofollow) etc. I'd be less perturbed.
- at Thu, 19 Jan 2006 02:32:13 +0100
It appears that they also link the word 'Perl' to
'http://www.serverpowered.com/fantastico.php'. I can only imagine the other
linking they are doing.
I believe they are on thin legal ground considering they make these changes
within the PHP manual and the other manuals they 'host'.
- Matthijs at Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:00:49 +0100
Tobias, thanks for the interesting discussion. I totally agree that this
form of linking/ advertising is very annoying, confusing and/or bad. For me,
as an experienced user, they are: - annoying, because if I read a 'serious'
article I expect links to point to other relevant content. - wrong, because
of the search engine spamming For less experienced users they probably are
very confusing (as michael points out).
But that's from the users point of view. Seen from the point of view from
the site owner and its advertisers, I wonder: what's the point of tricking
me to - unvoluntarily - click on ads? Why? Why would you want to have all
those annoyed visitors on your site?
If I were a paying advertiser, I would not like to pay for all those clicks!
But I could be wrong. Maybe this form of advertising does work for the
advertisers. It's probably the same as with email spam - unfortunately -
people do in fact click on those spam messages and do in fact buy cheap
you-know-what.
And, as in this case phpfreak points out, for a commercial website it's all
about the money. Writing this, I'm thinking: if you really need to have more
income and the only way is getting clicks on ads, why not force every
visitor to click on an ad before he/she is able to view the website :) Like,
"you haven't yet visited one of our sponsors today. Please click on this ad
first". That would be annoying as hell, but at least you know in advance
what's going on, instead of ending up on a advertisers site unexpected.
- Ian McCarthy at Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:45:46 +0100
They also appear to be linking the word e-mail to their parent company. Even
the fact that the word PHP currently leads to the front page of the site is
very confusing and misleading. Commonly inline links are used to refrence
people to more information about whatever they are reading, and as such it
is incredibly misleading to the user to end up in some hosting site while
looking for more information about what they were just reading. There are
many ways to resolve this issue, some that would probably not affect
advertising revenue too adversly. Perhaps you could try associating an image
with offsite adds, much like the one wikipedia uses to link offsite, you
could display a little dollar sign next to your inline adds? Maybe they
could be a diffrent color, or maybe just double underlined? This is
bordering on the smartwords thing microsoft was trying to do a few years
ago, you are attemption to profit by modifing other peoples work for your
direct benifit without their express permission. It's a shame to see a site
as involved in the PHP community as PHPFreaks to go down this road.
- at Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:04:00 +0100
As a followup to this. It appears they are in violation of the OPL, atleast
for the PHP manual.
"The modified version must be labeled as such."
They do not label their version as modified.
"The person making the modifications must be identified and the
modifications dated."
Not done.
- Toby at Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:59:56 +0100
Yes, I think you are right. This would propably be a way for the PHP group
to force those people to stop this bullshit. Although I (sadly) doubt the
PHP group cares much.
- Jacques Marneweck at Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:47:02 +0100
Would be nice for them to fix perl to go to the better place.
- Toby at Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:58:10 +0100
LOL, I asume they would only link it to their own URL, as they did with PHP
after I complained.
- Marc at Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:10:36 +0100
Wow what an interesting discussion. :)
But I share toby's oppinion: An user should be able to see if a link is an
advertisment or a "regular link".
It's a bit like phishing when you link ads on words where the user do not
expect it.
just my 2 cents,
Marc
- Mary at Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:21:47 +0100
Regardless of intent, it's a deceptive practise, plain and simple. That
should be enough reason not to do it.
Remember the IE "Smart Tags"? If it's not okay for IE to do it - and it
isn't - it's not okay for someone else to do it either.
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